The Road Question, Yet Again

“Who will build the roads?” is the question that belongs at the top of every libertarian drinking game. If we didn’t have forced labor, the argument runs, there would be no roads. There’d be a Sears store over there, and your house over here, and everyone involved would just be standing there scratching their heads.

Related to this is the traffic light question. Why, you libertarians must oppose traffic lights! I have no idea why people think so. This question would be up to the proprietor. And yet the evidence accumulates that traffic may flow more smoothly without them after all.

http://twitter.com/johnboy6073 John St. Clair

This reminds me of living in the Los Angeles area during the ’84 Olympics and the phenomena of light traffic during the events. Though nothing as drastic as removing the signals happened there, the ability of self control in a major city was on display. At least for a couple of weeks.
Jim

OK sure, that’s all fine, but what about the children?
http://plenarchist.wordpress.com/ plenarchist

I’m a licensed roadway engineer and traffic planner in consulting. Traffic signals have limited application – largely when there is heavy directional vehicle volumes (like morning and evening rush hours) on major arterials with many intersections fairly evenly spaced and few left turns.

But the US DOTs use signals everywhere because that’s all they’ve known. The modern roundabout is much safer with less delay than a signal except the condition above. Most of the world began using roundabouts 50+ years ago but the US about 15 years ago with slow adoption. The gov’s in the US are extremely resistant to change and there are crony consultants buying off politicians. Even so, I’ve designed several roundabouts.

The circular intersection was invented in the US 1905 Columbus Circle but then the circular design was screwed up and abandoned (the New England rotaries were not good). It was the UK that developed the modern roundabout. Thousands of lives could have been saved in the US if they’d been adopted in the 1960′s.

But “Who will build the roads?” is the wrong question. Almost all roads in the US are already privately built! And most are designed by consultants. The DOT’s set standards and perform construction inspections. That’s about it.

The question these people are really asking but won’t for obvious reasons is “Who will steal the land for the roads?” because that’s the only contribution of the gov.

There are many YouTubes on roundabouts but here’s one from Arizona -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzZvGdi_lMA
David

I’m not saying lack of traffic lights had anything to do with it (and indeed I didn’t notice a lack of them when I was in Buenos Aires last year) but drivers in Argentina (which is what the story in the link is about) are insane. I (not to mention the people I was with) almost got ran over 3 or 4 times in one week (not once was it my fault) and in my entire life in the US, I can only recall a couple even somewhat close calls.
http://www.facebook.com/marc.clair.3 Marc Clair

I certainly did experience the “insane Argentinian driver” in Buenos Aires. This intersection is in the much quieter Puerto Iguazu. The point is not that all Argentinians are or aren’t great drivers, but rather that in any environment the presence or lack thereof of a centrally planned traffic system is not the deciding factor in traffic safety.
JTPQuinn

http://mises.org/daily/4745

WARNING! The above article is outside the 3×5 card. Do not read. Will give you cancer.
http://twitter.com/cheddarbob316 Cheddar Bob

Well said plenarchist. I remember reading a critique of libertarianism not too long ago that acted as if traffic lights was a function of government that was undoubtedly good.
guest

Do they hold drivers that hurt others accountable to their victims?

If the threat of a fine can cause people to watch where they’re going, then surely the threat of being forced to make restitution to injured parties would do the same.

The traffic laws on a commons are unnecessary (as well as being violations of people’s rights).
guest

Check out this series, too:

Monderman (1of10) – Drachten Eye Contact
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo3KWHqmDhA
Paul Petrides

As someone who recently drove around in England, roundabouts are much better than traffic lights in many instances.
JFF

“But “Who will build the roads?” is the wrong question. Almost all roads
in the US are already privately built! And most are designed by
consultants. The DOTs set standards and perform construction
inspections. That’s about it.”

You didn’t… kind of disappointed at you; this is the same as dismissing critics of the Fed because we insist that it “prints money” out of thin air. “The Fed doesn’t print money; the Treasury does! Ergo, you’re argument is rejected!”

And (supposedly) as a fellow engineer, you should know better. When a real estate developer opens a new office complex, they usually say “Trump built that” or “Mack-Cali built that” fully aware that Thorton-Tomasetti, SOM, and Turner actually designed and constructed the structure. It’s always the person who puts out the money – or in the case of roads, steals the money – who gets the credit for “building” something.

Tsk, tsk.
http://plenarchist.wordpress.com/ plenarchist

I’m a licensed highway/traffic engineer in two states with many years experience. Believe me or don’t.

People don’t understand that the private sector funds, designs and builds many public roads already (every subdivision, on many arterials and even freeways now via PPP). I’ve been involved with several. So when someone asks, “Who will build the roads?” in a free society, the answer is the same people doing it now in the private sector – but on purchased not stolen land.